lucy, the evil, heartless bitch: part two
previously on LtEHB:
prologue
drinking game
part one
I think one of the big reasons I felt more comfortable talking with S about how shy and lonely I felt was, I'm rather ashamed to say, that I thought he was even more shy and lonely than me. He lived alone, didn't have any friends and spent most of his time outside of work on IRC. I guess I felt more at ease, because I wasn't so worried about him looking at my life and thinking how pathetic I was. It was actually flattering that he thought I was very social for being talkative online and having people to do things with in real life, too. It was also very obvious that he liked talking to me, so I wasn’t worried about annoying or boring him, as I was with the people I’d always really liked.
So, I was being kinda-sorta clumsily flirty and I'd "hug" him when he was feeling down and vice versa and stuff like that. It wasn’t real life, though, so it was supposed to be safe. I’ve always daydreamed about imaginary perfect lives where I'm completely normal and can talk to people and date and fall in love and live happily ever after etc, so I occasionally thought about what it would be like if we lived in the same place and could talk in real life the same way we had been online and maybe then we could be more than friends. But I also daydreamed similarly about the other friend I still sometimes talk to (let's call him M, in case he comes up again).
This was back in the day when not everyone had a digital camera, so it was a while before we got to exchange photos, but when we did, I have to admit I was disappointed and that’s one of the things that makes me feel most evil. At that time, I already felt freakish for never having had a crush on anyone. So, I guess I was kind of hoping that since I felt more comfortable with S, he would be an exception to the rule.
In the time since we’d started talking, F had gotten progressively more out of control and abusive in general. I’d managed to stay on his good side for a while, but then I followed along with a group attempt to annoy him, even though I knew it would be hurtful to him. I still regret doing that, even though I think he brought the animosity of others on himself by being pretty nasty and vindictive. After that, he started turning his vindictiveness on me.
At one point, he sent a message to the group about shy women who use shy men online. Using was defined as chatting privately without explicitly saying you weren’t interested in dating. Apparently, women have all the power in the relationship and should assume the man is interested in dating them, unless told otherwise. The thread degenerated into the usual discussion about how women (shy women in particular) are evil, shallow, selfish bitches who only ever lack a boyfriend because they constantly reject men for not being good-looking or rich enough. Meanwhile, the poor shy guys are selfless, devoted friends who are always deprived of the girlfriend that is their due for being so nice.
At first, I thought he was talking about S and me, but some of the specific details he added didn’t match, so I decided he was talking about someone else (actually, he was just embellishing or mistaken and he was talking about us). I still felt guilty, though, because I was doing pretty much exactly what F described and I was worried that meant I was using S. At this time, I was busy with work and family things, so I wasn’t on IRC and S and I were just emailing. I mentioned this discussion to S and said I didn’t think it was referring to us, but it could be and I hoped I wasn’t “using” him, but if I was I was sorry.
I got a reply the next morning that threw me, right before I had to leave on a family day trip, so I couldn’t reply or talk to S. S said he thought he was falling in love with me and he wasn’t sure how I felt, but he’d noticed I was kind of flirting with him, so maybe I was interested too.
Here’s where I should’ve said “I’m sorry I’ve given you the wrong impression. I think you’re a very nice person, but we live on opposite sides of the world, and all we’ve done is chat online and email; nothing is going to happen in real life. I’m just confused and lonely and I shouldn’t have been trying to make myself feel better by flirting with you online”. Unfortunately, I felt like I didn’t have a convincing enough argument to explain not being interested, despite the evidence to the contrary (let’s ignore for now the fact that I thought I needed a logically convincing argument). After all, I was spending a lot of time talking privately with him, I was flirting, I’d thought about the possibility of dating him if he lived nearby. How could I be sure I wasn’t interested?
Well, there was one big piece of evidence that suggested I wasn’t interested (my underwhelming reaction to seeing his photo), but I discounted that on the grounds that it would be shallow and evil (I’d been well-indoctrinated by the many discussions in the support group similar to that described above) to reject someone on the basis of a photo.
The other factor was that it was very flattering to have someone say he was falling in love with me. Plus, I’d never been able to talk to anyone so easily, so what if this was my only chance at ever having any kind of relationship? Was I really sure enough that I wasn’t interested, that I’d be willing to give up that chance? Apparently not.
(I think now’s a good time to scull your drinks)
I wrote back and said that I wasn’t sure at all and I couldn’t tell just from talking online, but it was theoretically possible that I might be interested if we actually met in person. Despite all my hedging, he took it pretty enthusiastically.
Labels: LtEHB
posted by Lucy @ 1:00 PM
8
comments
8 Comments:
I know there's more story to come, so all I'll say now is that sometimes it's just impossible -- even undesirable -- to tune out how someone looks. Like it or not, everyone has reactions on the basis of physical appearance. Not to say that there should be a standard of how people *should* react, or that we should treat people differently on the basis of how attracted we are to them (even though that's sometimes difficult to avoid), but just that I would vote for "not evil" on the charge of reacting negatively to the photo.
The thread degenerated into the usual discussion about how women (shy women in particular) are evil, shallow, selfish bitches who only ever lack a boyfriend because they constantly reject men for not being good-looking or rich enough. Meanwhile, the poor shy guys are selfless, devoted friends who are always deprived of the girlfriend that is their due for being so nice.
One of my good guy friends has a similar theory -- how it's EASY for a girl to get a guy, but that it's not so easy for guys.
I vote for "not evil" overall, based on what I've read so far. Relationships--online, in RL, whatever--are so, so complicated, and there are hundreds of reasons (ok, at least dozens) why people are/aren't attracted to others, or why we pursue things we might or might not really want, or why we think one thing and do another. I don't think ANY of those things make you--or anyone--evil. Just human.
And reflecting on these things, and trying to figure out where you're at, and where you were at, and why, is decidedly NOT evil.
All that said, I do spend (as you know) a lot of time analyzing why the heck i do things, or other people do things, and feeling bad about things I've done, or haven't. But I try to remember that even when I've done regrettable things, I didn't do them maliciously...sometimes it helps.
B*: guys like your friend are either mean or ignorant. I am sending evil thoughts his way. (I am now thinking back on all of the unsuccessful tactics I tried to meet guys when I was in college. Ack!)
Yup, no indications of evilness so far.
Flirting with guys when you don't know for sure whether you are interested in them is not evil. It's called hedging your bets. Or having fun. Or both.
Changing your mind about whether you are attracted to someone based on how they look is also not evil. It's something that you have no conscious control over. It's not like you were saying you didn't want to be FRIENDS with him based on his looks (that would be pretty shallow) -- but romantic interest is a different kettle of sardines.
And not being entirely sure about how you feel and wanting to meet someone in person to find out if things are different is the furthest from evil of any of it. In fact, it's generous and thoughtful and optimistic and kind and shows that you were trying NOT to be what you thought was shallow.
Also, just wondering -- was wanting not to let him down hard at this point (and maybe whatever comes later) partly to do with the fact that you had found someone you could really open up to -- a good friend -- and were scared of losing him? If that was the case, and it was a cold, calculating decision ("he won't be my friend if I don't pretend to be interested, therefore I'll string him along"), then that would be kind of heartless, but I'm sure that in your case, if it was present at all, it wasn't deliberate but maybe just a little bit of underlying motivation that you weren't consciously aware of, in which case it's perfectly understandable. Or maybe I'm entirely wrong here.
But in any case, NOT evil (so far) :)
I like the voting for evil/not evil. It should make it clear when/if I crossed the line :)
B*, I think perhaps it might be relatively easy for girls to find a date if they don't reject guys based on "shallow" criteria like not finding the guy interesting/attractive/sane. I agree with wolfa that it's probably harder for guys since they have to initiate, but in my (mainly online) experience, it seems to be a slippery slope from "girls have it easy" to a misogynistic sense of entitlement.
Styley, I don't remember thinking about losing him as a friend. I remember thinking more about not wanting to hurt his feelings/disappoint him, but it was probably part of my motivation. I think he might've said something about still wanting to be friends even if I didn't feel at all the same way, or I assumed he would still want to be friends, but I was probably worried about it being awkward, nevertheless.
[Howie Mandel] EVIL... or NOT EVIL? [/Howie Mandel]
So far, I vote not.
The whole whining about things being easier(harder) on women is crap. It's a common tactic used by guys(girls) to play the victim and feel like a martyr. I've felt the tug of it before. Things are so much easier on women... which is why there are approximately as many single women as there are single men? Right. There may or may not be a good reason why someone is single, but "the other sex sucks" is probably not valid.
As we've talked about before (in veiled reference to this story), you can't force attraction. Someone could be the smartest, funniest, cutest, coolest person in the world, but if you're just not into them, that's the way it is. I don't really think it shallow, but it also makes sense to not make up your mind on the basis of one photo too.
Yeah, so far definitely not even the slightest, teensiest bit evil. Perhaps you didn't do everything exactly the way you wish you should have, but all of your actions are not only not evil, but are pretty much reasonable given the context you were working within. You handled things the way you could, and tried to get what you wanted and not to hurt other people. There's nothing at all evil here so far.
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